Submitted by Don Doman.
I arrived a good half hour early. I lost count of friends, Rotarians, organizations, elected officials (past and present), kids, bikes, and families as I walked around People’s Park. The people were open and congenial. The weather was constantly threatening, but the people weren’t.
The weather was constantly threatening, but the people weren’t. The message was pretty clear, the America these people believe in is still alive and well.Protestors spoke their minds, but everyone in attendance I met at the Families Belong Together Rally were of the same mind. The efforts and policies of the Trump Administration, which has been separating children from their families, are inhumane, high-handed, and abusive. The message was pretty clear, the America these people believe in is still alive and well.
On street parking was the only parking available for the event. The police began blocking off the area around People’a Park beginning around 11:30.
The police began blocking off the area around People’s Park beginning around 11:30. Pre-printed signs were available if you wanted to do more than just listen.People of all colors were there enjoying themselves. Dogs were on leashes. Individuals were laughing, reveling in themselves and each other. The people were dedicated and serious, but everyone was comfortable with each other. Pre-printed signs were available if you wanted to do more than just listen.
Statements were being made by everyone. I even a baby stroller with a sign bigger than the baby. There was no lack of direction. The crowd of four hundred people knew why they were there. Many people had their own home-made signs just to make sure their feelings were known and shown.
Many people had their own home-made signs just to make sure their feelings were known and shown. Entertainment was delivered appropriately by Tacoma’s Refugee Choir.The event offered many different speeches and a little chanting. Entertainment was delivered appropriately by Tacoma’s Refugee Choir.
Representative Derek Kilmer mentioned he had visited with twenty-two women at Tacoma’s Northwest Detention Center. Mothers separated from their children is not what this country is about. Kilmer said it all, “I can’t get their sobs out of my head.”
Derek Kilmer said it all, “I can’t get their sobs out of my head.” It was nice to both see and hear comments from our Muslim neighbors.Diversity is what Tacoma is all about. It was nice to both see and hear comments from our Muslim neighbors.
The event was run by Miriam Barnett, CEO of YWCA Pierce County. She did a great job and her tee-shirt spoke for everyone: Enough!
Miriam Barnett did a great job and her tee-shirt spoke for everyone: Enough! The event here in Tacoma had just the right touch. It felt like home . . . and family.Similar events were being held around the nation and around Washington State. Although some other rallies had thousands of protestors, the event here in Tacoma had just the right touch. It felt like home . . . and family.
So following the law is out of style is it? I thought we were a nation of laws not a nation of emotions. Don’t like the current law regarding the treatment of illegal, emphasis on illegal, border crossers, then change the law. How many at your rally protested the fact that thousands of legal American children are separated from their parents every single day in the country through no fault of their own or that of their parents? They are called “military families” and they do it willingly. Then there is the case of criminals who are incarcerated through fault of their own and who are forcibly separated from their children for years, not days or hours at a time. Please don’t fall for this leftist “regressive” manufactured crisis which is nothing more than political theater ahead of the mid-term elections. I didn’t hear a peep out of you or others when the same policy was enforced under the Obama administration.
Mr. Arbeeny: Maybe, just maybe, the folks at the rally were doing something like building support to change the law as you suggested. I wasn’t at the rally, but I am in favor of changing the law. I can’t do it by myself, so rallies such as this are helpful in building support.
¡Que tenga un gran día!
Mike Brown
DuPont
Mike,
Thank you for reading the articles and comments.
You are exactly right . . . it was a great day . . . and the spirit shared was amazing.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Don
What I don’t understand is the call by many to “change the law.”
My question about changing the law(s) is, “Why? What is wrong with the current laws for immigration?”
All that is required is that people who wish to enter this country do so legally; follow the rules. If they do, then there should be no problem with their entry.
What alternative(s) do the “change the law” people want? Do they propose that there be no laws for immigration? That would mean that we have open borders which, in turn, would negate the sovereignty of the U.S. “Come on in, everybody! And it makes no difference if you have anything to contribute to this country. It also makes no difference that you don’t have a job to support yourself. Who is to support you, the already tax-burdened legal citizens?”
We are looking at just the beginning of the end of this country.
John,
Thank you for reading and writing.
Sometimes the rocks of society need to be turned over to show what is underneath . . . regardless of who is in the White House. Currently we have populations from around the world running from oppression and starvation. The current administration seems to be taking a stand against immigration of brown people and those of non-Christian religions. Not only does our president fight against their immigration, but he insults them, calls them names, and pushes for obscure, harsh, and outrageously expensive means to stop these people who would embrace our work ethic and contribute to our economy and prosperity. The rally was a non-violent demonstration of people who have become upset with the way our country is being run. Perhaps changing the current laws will result, or perhaps just they way they are carried out. Isn’t this the American Way?
Thanks, again for reading and commenting.
Don
This is what ‘real Americans’ look like.
If you wear a red ball cap or a pointy white klan mask, take note.
I totally agree with you John!!!! The parents came into the US illegally with their children, and have no right to be here. THEY BROKE THE LAW! They have no right to live in my country! Mr Trump, BUILD THAT WALL. Problem solved.
Norman,
Thank you for reading and writing.
I agree the people broke the law. I would suggest that the law and the regulations on immigration need to be changed. Immigrants built this country. Immigrants come for freedom and a better life. Many of the people we keep out will die. Shouldn’t we document the people legally? Shutting the door and double locking it gives rise to people who are desperate enough to run the risk. They have little lose. We can’t simply tell them that there is no room at the inn. New people, young people interring the work force, seeking education, willing to work hard, building a future for their families . . . is what made America.
Thank you, again for reading and commenting.
Right now, tell me everything you know about Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador and the crisis going on there.
They are not immigrants. They are refugees from having families wiped out.
How does that inconvenience you?
Chas,
Thank you for reading and for writing.
I’m not sure if your question is directed at me or some of the other comments.
You are correct about many of the people being stopped and jailed. They are refugees fleeing murder and mayhem, who have no where else to turn for safety and a better life. How does this inconvenience me? I have to believe they will be like the Irish who came during the potato famine or the Jews coming before, during, and after World War II . . . if let in they will become productive members of our society.
Don
Many, perhaps most, are not refugees but rather illegally entering the country for financial reasons. Many children are unaccompanied by their actual parents but rather by coyotes and trafficers who use the child as a way of sneaking in themselves. In any case there are laws governing refugee status; illegals know this; are often coached to give the right answers at their interview. What’s wrong with them remaining in their own country and fighting there to make it more like the US rather than illegally crossing here to make the US more like the country they just left? How does it affect me? Just like everyone else legally here or a citizen. They take jobs, social services, are often involved in criminal activity, erode the concept of a nation of laws, unfairly jump to the head of the legal immigration line, etc. Surely I don’t have to tell you this unless you’ve deliberately turned a blind eye to it. Feel sorry for illegals from Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador? Then I’d ask how much of your personal $$$ have you sent to charities that operate in those countries? If you haven’t, then don’t ask me for charity in this country for people illegally here.
John,
I think you are probably replying to Chas and his questions. I do take exception to your comment “They take jobs, social services, are often involved in criminal activity, erode the concept of a nation of laws, unfairly jump to the head of the legal immigration line, etc.” From the news I’ve seen farmers and growers are raising wages trying to attract pickers. If most of these people can pick they can have the jobs that no one else is taking. As far as crimes, it looks like you’re crying wolf for nada – https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?utm_term=.c9b21edcd9ed.
Thanks, again for reading and commenting.
Don
Hmm. What’s wrong with them staying in their own country and fighting to make it more like the U.S.? As Don has said, remaining is almost certain death where cartel violence is rife.
Teens and unattached children who are crossing the border are also fleeing the cartels, who would literally enslave them and force them to serve the cartel. For many, their parents were murdered, and their government doesn’t care enough to provide for them.
Yes, some people who enter the country might have a history of criminal activity. And yes, some who enter, even without a past history of criminal activity might eventually turn to crime, if they are desperate enough.
Sadly, we see an increase in citizens born and raised in the USA turning to crime, for a variety of reasons.
My husband was once waiting in the lobby of a local juvenile detention center, to speak with management about an estimate for parking lot repairs and maintenance.
While he waited, an older man was sweeping the lobby floor. He struck up a conversation with my husband. He’d worked there ever since his retirement from his job, because he didn’t like to sit around, and thought perhaps he could help the kids in the center.
He spoke of how the kids had come to trust him enough to tell their stories. He related how many of them were there because they’d been abandoned by parents. Some had younger siblings and there was no food. So they went to the grocery store to shoplift food.
They feared going to authorities for help, because they knew the high risk of being separated from their younger siblings, who would be placed into foster care. They wanted to stay together. And so the older sibling would shop lift to steal food, or clothing or shoes for their siblings.
They were caught, placed into Juvenile detention, and their younger siblings placed into foster care.
Gang recruitment happens in these facilities. Older boys keep a look out for likely recruits who have no family ties. They promise a bed to sleep in, a roof over their heads, plenty of food to eat, and new clothing, all if the youth will join the gang and serve whatever purpose the leaders asked.
Interesting that some people view these unattached teens entering the country as most likely being criminals, rather than looking at the big picture and asking themselves WHY they’re leaving their childhood homes.
I have traveled to ALL Seven Continents. I have seen how people live in other countries first hand. Not my problem! Come here legally, speak English, and live by our rules period. Illegals have no rights in my country.
Norman,
Thank you for reading and writing.
Illegals are illegals because of the laws the policies that are keeping them out. That is the problem. Restrictions because of color and religion is capricious, racist, and dishonest. You are here because your ancestors immigrated. We need the new blood, the new enthusiasm, new energy, and new people. Did your ancestors speak fluent English when they came here? People today are just asking for the same chance others had before them.
Thank you, again for reading and writing.
Don
You have no right to be here Norman, get out.
This nation was established by immigrants who, when they arrived, began to take lands that were rightfully not theirs, but were the lands of the First Nation people. Genocides were committed. Treaties were established, and violated.
As time passes on, and immigrants continued to arrive on this continent, they worked hard to build something for their families. Look at the Irish, who came to escape the tyranny of the British overlords, and also the potato famine.
Look at the immigrants from Eastern Europe, fleeing communism and fascism. Perhaps it’s time to dismantle the Statue of Liberty, who no longer lifts her lamp beside the golden shore, at least if an immigrant isn’t white. Change the lyrics to the song. ” Give me only your white and wealthy, your University educated physicians and scientists. Give me only Christians, from whichever sect considered to be the true Christian sect. Keep your tired and poor, keep any who aren’t the right religion according to the status quo, we don’t want them. Keep your disenfranchised, those fleeing corrupt governments and mob and cartel violence. Doesn’t matter if they’re also Christians, if their skin isn’t lily white, we don’t want them. If they come, rip their family units asunder. Who cares if their children are abused by shelter workers? Who cares if they’re emotionally damaged by the experience? If they aren’t WASP children, why should we care? ”
How’s that?
The Latino families and individuals I have the privilege of knowing personally are hard working people who love their children. They want only the right to earn a living for their children. The majority of them attend Church every week. They aren’t the enemy, yet even for Latinos who are American citizens, they are being racially profiled by police and governing agencies, out of suspicion.
Janice,
I think you are correct and that suspicion is how many people are being judged by some of our agencies . . . thankfully, not all . . . hopefully not for long.
Don
And yet most of those people do not feel sad or remorseful separating children from their mothers in the womb. They pride in the fact they are pro abortion but yet it is ok for illegals and their children to live here. Many of their ilk are causing the great holocoust in America. I am not at all impressed with this gathering. On a dime they can turn their friendliness to hateful speech. This is just what liberals do.
Abortion has killed 50,000,000 and counting since 1974; over 600,000 just last year. We’ve managed to kill off a significant portion of whole generations of potential productive citizens in the last 45 years and now are faced with a birthrate among citizens that has fallen below the replacement rate. I suspect that the reason those who survived after Roe v. Wade haven’t had as many children as prior to, is due at least in part to the cheapening of life in the US and implication that children are an imposition upon modern society’s lifestyle choices. I mean, who wants to raise kids when you can be out working your butt off in a successful career so you can afford to indulge yourself in a life of relative luxury?
John,
I’m glad that my article is of interest, but you’ve changed the context and the argument away from immigration. It’s a world of changes. Here in the U.S. women have control over their own bodies and their futures. They have moved along way from being property. “According to the most recent estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau, the average age of first marriage for women in 2017 was 27.4 years. For men, it’s slightly older at 29.5 years. That’s the longest Americans have ever waited to get married.” In 1950 the average age of first marriage for women as 20.3 and for men 22.8. The rule is no longer “Kinder, Küche, Kirche.” People are free to choose. Abortion remains a concern, but I think it should not be a target.
Thank you, again for reading and commenting.
Don
Thank you Don. I agree. At least for the time being, American women have control over their own bodies and reproductive systems. At least in theory. The current Administration would like to change that and overturn Roe Vs. Wade.
Margarita Hope, as you may or may not be aware, many religions discourage, or outright prohibit use of contraceptives or birth control pills. Many women in such religions, are subject to the will of their husbands over that issue, especially in other nations but not limited to other nations. And even in the cases of sexual assault, or incest resulting in the pregnancy of a minor child, some people still complain about the option of abortion.
There are various reasons a woman might opt for an abortion. Her husband or significant other might have abandoned her. She might lack employment, and some employers are reluctant to hire a pregnant woman because she’ll eventually need maternity leave.
The family provider might lose their employment, and with it, health insurance which would have covered prenatal care, etc.
The couple may have been using contraceptives, and contraceptives aren’t 100% effective in every case.
Why should a woman be forced to carry a fetus to term and risk health issues, and the potential of death in childbirth? Why is childbirth in the USA finding a significant raise of childbirth fatalities?
One could also look at how many children are unwanted and unloved by their parents. Often abused, and even murdered by their own parents. Better to have pregnancy terminated in fetal stages than to be born into a family where they are not wanted or loved.
None of which has anything to do with Don’s original comment. We’re talking about little immigrant children being forcibly separated indefinitely from refugee parents likely fleeing cartel violence.
Any single white mother in this country commits a crime she gets caught and goes to jail, her kids in up in the foster care system. What happens with the illegals is nothing different from that. Its not a racist thing, its parents go to jail kids get taken care of. Crossing the border illegally is something people from every country knows is wrong, but they still do it. A lot of countries will just shoot you, so they should be over joyed they are still alive.
Bradley,
Thank you for reading and for writing.
You are exactly correct. An American commits a crime and gets caught, they go to jail if convicted.
But this is not the case with immigration. The correct way to is to apply for a visa or a green card. Do you know how many years those can take? If your children were starving or your wife and kids were under constant threat of torture and death. Would you fill out the paperwork and apply or would you seek another way to relative safety? People in the Middle East are fleeing on leaking boats looking for a port that will accept them. Should they be simply turned away?
Protesters are seeking change to immigration laws and policies. Isn’t that the American way? To simply stand and hide behind old laws and policies makes no sense.
Thanks, again for reading, and commenting.
Don
You’re attempting to change the subject because you know you’re wrong and your viewpoint on this is immoral.
Margarita,
Thank you for reading and writing.
I always worry about label, but I am confused. What is the “great holocoust in America?” I don’t understand.
Please, explain. Thank you.
Don
She’s referring to abortion.
Janice,
Thanks again for commenting. I will be unable to read comments for a while. We’re taking grandkids to a play this afternoon and then we taking a few days off. I’ll try to keep up with comments as I can.
Thanks, again for reading and commenting. Keep up the good fight.
Don
Two comments:
1. If you were heading for a foreign country and told you would have to leave your children behind, would you continue on into that foreign country?
2. The difference between an immigrant and an illegal alien is akin to the difference between a guest in your home and a burglar.
If you were leaving your country of origin because the cartel are killing families and forcing men into servitude, would you leave your children behind in that family as you flee for your own life?
These are refugees.
Dave,
Thank you for reading and for writing.
Your question:
If you were heading for a foreign country and told you would have to leave your children behind, would you continue on into that foreign country?
My question:
If you were heading for a foreign country and told you would have to leave your children behind to die, would you continue on into that foreign country?
Thanks, again for reading and commenting.
Don
Dave,
You never answered my question about what you would do. If you were heading for a foreign country and told you would have to leave your children behind to die, would you continue on into that foreign country? My guess is your answer would be simply “no.”
But you ask now why change our laws for immigration. Desperate people around the world are starving and others are fleeing for their lives. In a perfect world that wouldn’t happen, but our world is not perfect.
Here are the basics: “If you are the child (over 21 years of age) of a US citizen, you are in the first preference. The wait for a US visa in this category can be six years. If you are the child or spouse of a green card holder, you are in the second preference. The wait for a US visa in this category can be five to ten years.” More details at
https://www.us-immigration.com/us-immigration-news/us-immigration/how-long-does-it-take-for-an-immigrant-to-legally-come-to-the-united-states/
Hungry and scared parents generally do what they need to do to protect their family even if it means entering the U. S. illegally.
How long does it take to become a U.S. citizen? “To qualify to apply for U.S. citizenship via naturalization, you should meet following requirements: You are 18 years old and above at the time of application. A lawful green card holder (permanent resident) for five years. Have established continuous residency for 5 years and are physically present in the U.S.”
So, you see legally it takes as much as ten years to get permissions to get in and years more to become a citizen.
“Many Americans wonder why all immigrants do not just come to the United States legally or simply “get in line” if they are unauthorized. These suggestions miss the point: There is no line available for unauthorized immigrants and the “regular channels” do not include them.” – https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/why-don%E2%80%99t-they-just-get-line
Thanks again for commenting.
Don
Thanks for commenting.
Obviously none of you understand the pain and confusion of not knowing where your child is. I do. It is the most horrible experience any parent can go through. For these parents to first fear for their lives and their children’s lives and run hoping to find sanctuary and then be separated and incarcerated is a blight on the morality of those who support it.
Will,
Thank you for reading and for writing.
I appreciate your echoing the mindset and stance of those who attended last week’s rally.
Thank you, again for reading and commenting.
Don
If they come here through legal entry points, they are not separated. Have your birth certificates, etc. , and you have no problem. High crime and poverty is not a legitimate reason for asylum. Families should stay together. If you don’t meet the criteria, you all go back to your country.
Exactly! I came to this country years ago legally and I am so proud to be an American! Illegals are doing a disservice to their children teaching them to disobey laws of entry to America. I also do not think their children will be upstanding citizens when they grow up.
Larry,
Thank you for reading and writing.
High crime and poverty is not a legitimate reason for asylum? Is life so cut and dried? Shouldn’t fleeing murder and starvation be a consideration? Especially for a county that owes its existence to refugees and immigration? Would you meet the thousands of people risking their lives in floating coffins from the Middle East crossing the Mediterranean Sea and simply tell them to go back to their own country? The world is on the brink of destruction for these people. If your children faced death and torture would you just stand there or would you risk knocking on the door of the greatest country in the world and asking for admittance?
Thank you for reading and commenting.
Don
Margarita,
Thank you for reading and writing, again.
I am also a proud American, but I think our laws and policies could be changed so that people could immigrate legally. Please, ask yourself “What lengths would I go through to keep my children safe . . . and give them a future?”
Thanks again for reading and commenting.
Don
Don, thank you for your excellent article and photos. Thanks also for patiently and appropriately responding to each comment, making many excellent points. I agree with you. Wish I could have participated Saturday, but I almost feel like I was there from your sharing.
Mary,
Thank you for reading and writing in.
The rally felt just right. People were concerned and want to have something done about the situation . . . as do many of the people who have written. Not all agree, but that’s okay. It’s America. We can do that.
Thank you, again for reading an commenting.
Don
Illegal immigrants are already better Americans than MAGA trash
Why so hurtful, Stevie? Why the hate speech?
Steve,
Thanks for reading and commenting on four other comments . . . succinct . . . and protecting my back! I needed a good laugh or two this morning. Thanks, again.
Don
Don now we really see what kind of individual you really are when you like Steve’s comments. I thought his comments were angry and frankly I would not be surprised if he or you are Socialists/Marxists which falls under the umbrella of progressives. Just look at Europe and the recent crime wave there since they opened their borders. Switzerland, England, Germany and France has “no go” zones now and the rape crime is astronomical. Countries with no borders will soon cease to be an autonomous country. I hereby announce we all come inside homes of those who believe illegals should enter the US illegally and make ourselves sandwiches and demand you pay our medical bills, etc. How would you like that?
Margarita,
Whoa . . . a Socialist/Marxist . . . that’s kind of a tough row to hoe for an entrepreneur like me. Steve gave me some relief. I did like the fact that he took on four separate people that disagreed with me. I see different comments directly on The Suburban Times from what I see on my Facebook page. On Facebook I often have someone attacking what I say and I’ll respond and then a bit later another friend will step in and put in their two cents worth . . . kind of like a tag-team match. But with comments on The Suburban Times I usually just do the commenting . . . always with back up material. For example, your rape claims don’t seem to jive . . . “The number of rapes recorded by police in England and Wales is the highest in the EU, according to official figures published yesterday. Almost three times more rapes were recorded than in France, the country with the second highest number.” – https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rape-figures-for-england-and-wales-highest-in-europe-sr587qnck. If you come over, I’ll make you a sandwich, but immigrants are breaking the laws because they have no alternative. Starvation, rape, and torture are hardly acceptable alternatives. Jeff Sessions has even made it more difficult to claim asylum. Questioning if scars are really from cigarette burns is a little hard to take from an administration that thinks waterboarding is good.
But . . . thanks again for writing and commenting . . . keeps me on my toes.
Don
I’ve been following this issue closely. We are learning that many of these immigrant children have endured sexual abuse at the hands of shelter workers. We are learning of the emotional repercussions for a child who is separated from his parent(s), even if they’ve been reunited.
Our nation was established, and built by immigrants and colonists. People flee their country of origin for a variety of reasons. The immigrants and colonists who established and built this nation originally came for freedom of religion, and to escape the abuse of overbearing monarchs and tyrannical governments.
Those refugees fleeing Mexico, Central and South American nations are fleeing drug cartel violence, or abusive and tyrannical governments. The USA had, in the past, given asylum to such refugees, but not anymore.
The system needs an overhaul. The process for legal immigration has far too much red tape, and takes too long for those fleeing the cartels. It shouldn’t be that difficult to vet potential immigrants seeking asylum or refuge. If only their governments would be more cooperative in providing information about their records.
The current POTUS is apparently under the impression that every immigrant is a potential rapist, criminal and terrorist, or so he implied. That they’re all either MS-13 ( if they’re Latino ) or perhaps even Islamist terrorists entering on pretense of being Latino.
These families, with husbands, wives, and children who cross the border illegally in desperation, face potential death at the hands of the cartel if deported to their nation of origin, or separation of their families at the hands of the US Government.
What this POTUS is doing, in tearing down DACA and deporting people who were only little children or infants when their parents came to the USA, is despicable. Many don’t even speak the language of their parent’s nation of origin. What do you think their chances of survival are, being deported and speaking only English?
Here is an example of what can happen to a child emotionally, when forcibly separated from his parents for indefinite periods of time. This boy was eventually reunited with his mother, but is no longer the same child:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/31/us/migrant-children-separation-anxiety.html
And here is a statement by the APA president about the traumatic effects of separating immigrant families:
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2018/05/separating-immigrant-families.aspx
Let’s adjust the immigration process to assist people seeking refuge.
Janice,
Thanks for reading about the rally. That particular article had the most responses of any pieces I’ve written in the Suburban Times . . . even more than my article on circumcision. The good news this morning on Yahoo is that decision by the courts to demand DACA be restored.
The basic problem with our immigration policy is that you need to apply for a visa or a green card and this can take years. The laws need to be changed. It sure looks like our current administration makes up their own statistics for virtually everything: U.S. agencies have not collected strong evidence showing that the U.S. asylum system is “currently subject to rampant abuse and fraud,” as stated by Attorney General Jeff Sessions in remarks to Congress on Oct. 12, 2017.
Only two out of every hundred asylum seekers are being approved. Do you think the other 98% are liars? I don’t, but I do think some people are shaping their decisions based on innuendo or worse.
On the good news front . . . thank you for reading my articles.
Don
Janice,
Illegal immigration is nothing new . . . nor is criminal records of people searching for freedom. Thomas Francis Meagher was a convicted criminal and sent to an Australia penal colony. He jumped ship and entered America illegally. He rallied Irish immigrants to fight for the Union during the Civil War. He became a Union general and hero in the American Civil War. After the war he headed west and was appointed Montana Territorial Governor. Damn illegals. He probably had an accent, too . . .
Thanks, again for reading and commenting.
Don